Lap band and the junk food grazer...Is there hope?

[kiz]

I've only been to the surgeon's seminar and my appointment is next week for my evaluation. I do have a few questions, and I was hoping that some of you that have the lap band might be able to help me this big issue I'm worried about.

I understand the pouch, the stoma, and the large stomach area. I don't understand how one feels full, with the larger stomach empty and with small amounts of food slowly going from the pouch to the stomach. Is it the feeling of restriction that you have which causes pain if you overeat that makes you stop eating, or are you actually satisfied with the small amount of food you can eat with the correct restriction of the band? After having the proper breakfast, for instance, are you ravenous by lunch, or does the filled pouch really give the feeling of fullness to your brain? I'm not looking for a quick fix to emotional eating, I'm really asking about the actual biology of full vs. yikes I can't eat or I'll have a pb/slime (i.e. the Pavlov's dog theory of learning).

My worry is that I'm not a big eater at any one time now, but I get hungry soon after eating, and then I eat JUNK. I also choose the faster easier calorie laden food over a good apple, banana, etc. I grazed my way to obesity a brownie, cookie, donut, bag of chips, etc at a time.

I'm not worried that I will eat the junk food after banding if I'm satisfied with the restricted amount of food that I can safely eat. I've read many lap band stories from people who say they previously ate vast amounts of food at one setting, and they've successfully lost weight with the band, but that's not my eating issue.

I have the willpower to change those grazing habits, and if I have a way to combat those hunger issues, I can do it. I have a lot of confidence in that, but my worry is that the band isn't a hunger suppressant, partially because the first seminar I attended, the surgeon was really negative about lap band and in favor of gastric bypass. The hunger issue after lap band was one of his main complaints, where as the gastric bypass destroys the production of the hunger hormone. (I'm not going to consider gastric bypass though).

I'd really appreciate if you could explain how this all works. Also, if any of you had my eating pattern, and were successful with the lap band, I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks

[ginabobina]

Welcome Kiz!! Great questions and the answer is one of the reasons I finally decided to have WLS. The surgeon explaine that there are basically two ways your brain gets a signal that you are full or no longer hungry (not necessarily the same thing). One is that the food metabolizes and reaches your blood so your blood sugar goes up and you're no longer getting a signal to eat (feeling hungry). That's why regardless of WLS or not, it is recommended that a person eat slowly because the brain doesn't get a signal to stop, based on blood sugar, for about 30 minutes. The other way though is to eat so much food that your stomach is full... the signal gets sent to your brain when food reaches the UPPER area of the stomach, similar to a gas tank in a car. For those who overeat, the stomach is very large and can stretch to the size of a football. That means it can take quite a bit of food to trip the "full" button. With the band, food is held in the upper pouch, triggering the nerves that tell your brain your stomach is full... so it tricks the stomach's nerves into thinking the entire stomach is full when there is actually only 1/2c to 1 cup of food in there. Because the emptying occurs slowly, the nerves are "tripped" that much longer, helping you feel full longer. There is some truth to the other aspect of not overeating because you don't want to PB but if you're hungry, you eat... avoiding a PB isn't about avoiding eating altogether, only about not overeating at a particular meal. Hope that makes sense?

Again welcome to b2g!!!

[Jacqie]

Kiz~
I can't give you the tech stuff on how it all works, but when your pouch is full there is a small area at the top of your stomach and that is what tells the brain yep I'm full. The food passes slower into the big stomach so you stay full longer. I normally eat at 9:00. 12:30 a snack at 2 or 2:30 dinner from 6 or 7 then I'm done for the day. I do tend to be more hungry later in the day and that is why I have now started having a snack at 2 or 2:30 and it keeps the nawing hunger at bay. I was too a huge junk food eater expecially late in the day and I can say I have had my moments but over all chips, cookies and cakes are just not much of an issue anymore. I love my band and I am a slow loser because of my own doing I tested the bands controls for 3 years and thought I knew more than the doctors and such but I realize oh no I don't and am back on going the right way. If I were you I would look for a surgeon that believes in the band and its ablity it will help you be more successful if your doctor is supportive of the choice you make and believes in it's ablity.

[kiz]

Thank you so much for the Gina and Jacquie for the primer on how the lap band makes you feel full with a empty lower stomach. I just couldn't understand how filling little pouch made could send your brain the signal that you'd had enough to eat. I feel a lot better about that now.

As far as doctors, I should have explained that I found a different surgical group in the same hospital. The original seminar was presented by a surgeon who *only* performs gastric bypass. His associate, who performs the lap band surgery wasn't there. The second seminar I attended was a much more balanced presentation. The doctor was very personable, and I felt much more positive about the surgery. Needless to say, I made my appointment with the second surgical group. As much as I wish I could wake up tomorrow fit and trim, I know that it will take work and perseverance to get me there. I've learned so much from all the reading I've done here. Thank you for the warm welcome too.

[kristina]

hi Kiz and welcome to B2G!!!

i have been to a total of 3 seminars now and it seemed the docs were ALL in favor of the gastric. i think its cause its what they know most..not anything against the band or the people with it. i think both procedures rock! but the band is def. for me too.

good luck on your journey, and your upcoming appointment!

[chrispygal]

Kiz, I too was a grazer and never was one to eat huge quantities of food in one sitting. Not moreso than anyone of my "normal size" friends anyway. But my downfall always has, and always will be, snacking. It took me three fills until the band finally satiated my hunger. I get hungry, but I'm not hungry all the time anymore. And if I snack, even on bad stuff, it's such a small amount compared to what I used to be able to snack on. So yes I think a grazer can be successful. You will have to change some habits, and it may take you longer, but you can do it!

My surgical team is definitely pro-band. They think bypass is a great option, but they love that the band is adjustable which is key to long-term success. Bypass was never really something I wanted to do, but I knew for sure after asking my surgeon which surgery he would recommend to his mother, and he said the band.

[kiz]

Thanks Kristina. You're very smart to go to more than one seminar. I just lucked into it, but I'm very glad that I found my way to a different group of surgeons. I was very surprised at that first seminar. When I had called to find out what I needed to do to make an appointment for lap band info, I was taken aback to find out that they scheduled me for a seminar with a surgeon who found the lap band to be a fad. He even said that over the years he has seen many procedures come and go, and then he made a strong hint at that point that he felt the same would be said for the lap band. He also said that it's beginning to lose favor in Europe, and then he made it clear that he felt it would be the same in the U.S. That seminar was very disheartening. At the very least, they should have had the lap band surgeon present to answer questions, since the lead doctor and gastric bypass specialist had such a negative view of lap band.

Chris, I'm so glad you told me you had some of the same eating patterns as me and have been successful, after you found the right fill level. That first doctor's words keep running through my head, and then I wasn't completely sure if lap band could work someone who isn't a big meal eater in the first place. Now that I'm beginning to understand the principles behind the band and how a person feels full and continues to feel full on a limited amount of food, I'm more confident that I can be a successful bander. I'm very excited about my doctor's appointment next week.

[bgrand]

I am and have always been a grazer. However, at our conference this year we did learn that grazers are more apt to stretch their pouch since we are always keeping food in the pouch. The recommendation was to eat 3 meals a day and if need be, and only if need be, have high protien snack in between 1 or 2 times a day.
Now, I need to remember to practice this, as I have already stretched out one pouch. It would be real stupid of me to go down that road again, but yes, here I sit another day and graze. I like those noted above, will graze throughout the day, stopping at about 7pm. I eat a few bites almost every hour. Since I am tighter than most, I am only able to eat a few bites at a meal, so I rationalize to myself that it is ok to eat a few bites all day long. But it isn't really. the few times that I have been able to eat something of good quality substance I did find that I was satified for hours.
I am getting a slight unfill Thursday and will HAVE to now begin the true practice of eating healthy quality meals 3 times a day and only snacking 1-2 times a day only if I have to. Plus, the fact that I am not getting all my fluids in daily...which is a whole other topic.

[Jachut]

What Chrispy said.

I was a grazer, and when snacking as opposed to meals I will always choose a cookie, donut, chips over healthy food, even though I love most healthy foods.

yes the band makes you feel fuller, even if your lower stomach is empty. Its really hard to put your finger on exactly how it helps, it just does. It has a bit of an appetite suppressant effect so subtle that you just dont notice, and you just naturally eat less.

You will still need willpower not to snack, but realistically, that fails and fails often. But the thing is, when your meals are so much smaller and you're trying to eat healthy most of the time, AND you add some decent exercise, you will lose weight. I didnt lose fast, but I lost 120% of my excess weight.

The triggers, the types of overeating I did, the types of food that I chose when I did it, those havent changed. I will always be a boredom eater, I will always eat if I'm stressed and I will never say no to a glass or three of wine. I'm sorry to tell you that, its not what people REALLY want to hear, but I reckon nobody on the entire planet is a perfect eater and the good news is, you can have some bad habits and still be normal weight. The feeling of being able to CONTROL those habits is awesome. And I cant stress enough how important exercise is, I seriously suspect I may have been able to lose (maybe not this much) without a band had I just pulled my finger out and done then what I do now exercise wise.

[kiz]

Thanks so much for your advice, Betty, especially since you've experienced the consequences of continuing to graze after gastric surgery. It's very helpful for me to understand the reasons behind the rules. Good luck with the slight unfill. I think getting enough fluids down will be a challenge for me too.

One good bit of news for me is that I really do like the way I feel *AFTER* I exercise, Jachut. I can't say I enjoy it, or get that rush people talk about, but after the fact, I feel great. Now that I'm committed to this, I've been upping my exercise in anticipation of a healthier body. I have to say I've been a bit of a slug because I've felt it's a bit useless to put time on the strider and then follow that up with junk food later in the day. So, I feel inspired every time I read the posts from all of you who are putting in the sweat equity. As far as being completely unsuccessful with Weight Watchers (more than once), I do think they have such a fabulous eating ideology. I know there will be certain foods that will be off my diet, but I'm a firm believer that banning all things sinful will eventually lead to failure. So, while I am firmly in the camp of following the health related rules, proper exercise, a healthy diet, I'm not going to try to be a saint at this. For me, that kind of pressure will never work. I'm in this for the long haul, and a diet (not DIET - but diet) that will be my way of life, not a six-month quick fix.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help and great advice!